Have Your Say

Tell us about your neighbourhood »

Goodbye Talgarth Intersection

Richard Fox
Joined: 10 December 10
Posted: 10 December, 2010 - 17:54
Any MASTERPLAN will include the Intersection of North End Road and Talgarth Road, many moons ago an underpass was suggested, since that time all we have had is accidents and fatalities. Traffic and safety should feature highly in any MASTERPLAN as it would hardly be very Masterful if it does not, care and safety of residents first, PROFIT second please.

Comments

Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 14 December, 2010 - 14:21
Hi Richard Many thanks for your comment. Traffic and safety have always been very high on our agenda and we are working closely with Transport for London and Hammersmith & Fulham council to create a masterplan for the site which will encourage people who live in the area to walk or cycle rather than drive. Please look closely at the map on the West Kensington Village page of this website: http://www.myearlscourt.com/the-future/west_kensington_village/ You will see that we intend to create a pedestrian crossing at the junction of North End Road and Talgarth Road . We also plan to make changes to the West Cromwell Road through landscaping, public space and art, making them much more pedestrian and cyclist friendly rather than just a busy through-route for vehicles. Research shows that pedestrians much prefer crossing busy roads than going under them through tunnels and underpasses which can often prove very dangerous as they can be a magnet for muggers.
Richard Fox
Joined: 10 December 10
Posted: 20 December, 2010 - 11:01
Hi Frankly I believe a very poor answer, I would far rather take my chance with Muggers at least I can fight back, fighting an articulated lorry is very hard believe me. Build it properly, plenty of Lighting, plenty off CCTV and then put barriers up so people cannot cross the road and get killed, how much do you value each life that has been lost there, is this Profit before People ??? Indeed there are some very good CCTV cameras on the Talgarth Road, these have recorded the Coach that killed 3 or 4 people before ploughing into the Chinese Restaurant, the elderly Lady that was dragged under an articulated lorry, the numerous cyclists that have been killed, I have witnessed many a Motorbike accident that have proved fatal, and in fact maybe I should bring my good friend along to your next open day, as he has not worked for 15 years since he was run over on that very same intersection. I am told that it is in the top 3 fatality spots in London, if as you say you are doing this project for the locals, then do something about this death trap first, forget the rest of the project, SAVE LIVES, you have a golden opportunity here, a few trees will not save people, the local dogs might appreciate them but thats about that. So stop hiding how dangerous this stretch of road is, I think it has to be one of the main considerations, and for those that are involved and will make substantial profit from this venture should PAY for it. In fact why not post the statistics up on this site, so local people can be told how many people have been killed there in say the past 10 years, is it 100 plus ??? Safety first, profit later Richard
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 22 December, 2010 - 15:32
Hi Richard Thanks for pointing out once again how dangerous this intersection is and the number of accidents caused over the last decade. As you've clearly lived in the area for a long time, your comments are very important to us. You are right - this is a golden opportunity for us to improve the whole area and not just concentrate on the site of the Earls Court Project. This is why the 4 villages concept of our masterplan aims to integrate into and improve surrounding communities, infrastructure and roads. We are well aware of the current dangers posed by the junction of North End Road and Talgarth Road and we've noted your suggestion about underpasses. However, Transport for London have told us that flat crossings are preferable and as London's strategic transport body we have to listen to what they tell us very carefully indeed. Please come along to our next series of drop-in sessions next year and bring along your friend as we'd like to talk you through the reasons why the new West Kensington village will make this corner of Fulham a better, and safer place to live in the future.
Richard Fox
Joined: 07 November 10
Posted: 23 December, 2010 - 11:16
Thank you for your response, if we go back say 12 years ago, the Talk was not an underpass for pedestrians, but an underpass for the traffic, it was felt feasable then so it must be even more feasable now we have big money players such as Capital & Counties Properties PLC, the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham and Transport for London. Add to this some government funds, and maybe a bit of Lottery money and you will be able to build a gateway into London / West London and over time save 1000's of lives. You would also turn back the historic clock and make this hamlet safe again as it was before the A4 was run trhough it, The road cannot cope now, it will certainly cope less with the new infrastucture you propose to put into place. Or is this all just another White Elephant plan, like the development of the old Whitelys Depository stores, there was lots of fanfare then about bowling alleys, recreation facilities benefits for locals and what did we get Bloody great big office block and a very Expensive Kensington Village. I would redevelop West Kensington Station TFL OWN ALL THE SHOPS, I would bring the 3 Kings Pub into the Underground and Station shopping complex dvelopment, I would run a walkway from the station development for the safety of my locals, and I would bury the traffic underground using an underpass, I would then erect an ENOURMOUS sign WELCOME TO LONDON - "The Gateway To Earls Court Village" and central London" London The Home of everything. And behind this Monumment to London, I would creat my Earls Court Villages you talk of , in the safe knowledge that the people living will be receiving cleaner air, in a greener enviroment and less of them will be killed by cheap govermnment cut backs of what I consider the most important part of this project The monies there Capital & Counties Properties PLC, the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham and Transport for London. BUILD IT Richard
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 23 December, 2010 - 15:49
Thanks for your suggestion Richard. Whilst creating an underpass for traffic would be great in an ideal world, digging a tunnel under one of the main arterial roads into London and out to one of the world's busiest airports would cause untold disruption. Capco and its potential partners in the Earls Court Project will be investing heavily in infrastructure if plans go ahead. They have commissioned some of the best consultants in the country to carry out months of research to ensure this new neighbourhood would be as sustainable as possible for future generations and won't become a white elephant. The Earls Court Project team are thinking of ways to create something iconic to celebrate this new gateway to the capital and we'll be happy to get more feedback from you once we unveil the detailed masterplan next year. As for your thoughts on the redevelopment of West Kensington Station and a new shopping complex, I'll pass these on and get back to you in early January. Happy Christmas and best wishes for 2011.
Richard Fox
Joined: 10 December 10
Posted: 31 January, 2011 - 12:39
Nothing is impossible, and we have built the channel tunnel, so lets not say it cannot be done, the logistics may be hard, but we can put men on the moon, so surely we can build ourselves a safe living environment, kinda makes more sense build a safe environment here before we start building them on the moon. SAFETY at Talgarth/North End Road has to be given a priority in any development, its a death trap and any developer that chooses to overlook this should be seeking legal advice as to his/her future criminal liability in deaths that occur there in future by neglecting this very important safety aspect, when they have the opportunity You have admitted your self that what was once a country lane is now one of London main arteries for all the traffic coming from Heathrow Airport, it is just not designed for this , it cannot cope, it is a death trap, it is not in the interest of anybody for this remain as is. It is not our duty to listen to London Transports view off an over ground walk way, they need to look towards the safety of their passengers before there profits, London Transport cant even afford to build the lift they promised 2 or 3 tears ago, why do we need to listen to them?? The problem with the 3 bodies that you have put together is there joint ability to lie, not ever once have I seen any of them carry through any of there ideas, they talk about them, spend money on them but they never ever get any of then of the ground, and I am beginning to think that this is just another one that we fall by the wayside. You said you would get back in January, its now the 31st
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 1 February, 2011 - 22:25
Thank you for your post Richard. The masterplan for the Earls Court Project does include plans to make the Talgarth Road / North End Road safer and as I have already stated the safety of pedestrians will not be overlooked. I suggest you come along to one of the drop-in sessions we have planned for late February / early March - I will be publishing details on this website next week. We have designed an exhibition to unveil the masterplan for the Earls Court Project and one of our transport team will be attending each drop-in session so you can discuss your proposals in detail then.
james ensor
Joined: 09 March 11
Posted: 9 March, 2011 - 17:14
Of course it is possible to build an underpass at this site although the presence of tube lines not far below road height will make it complicated. On a visual judgement it would not be possible to tunnel under the Talgarth Road in a north-south direction with sufficient height to accomodate double deck buses. The congestion at this point is not primarily caused by traffic in the north-south direction. It is due more to traffic from the West turning right into North End Road and traffic from the South turning West into Talgarth Road. Soon after turning traffic is blocked in one direction by a pedestrian crossing and in the other by a bus stop. Traffic flows could easily be improved by providing a left filter lane for vehicles arriving from the south along North End Road, which could probably be achieved without any destruction to property or lengthy interruption to the westward flow out of the Cromwell Road extension. Something better would need to be provided for pedestrians than the existing push button crossing which aside from being dangerous regularly backs up traffic turning left out of North End Road. In the other direction , the right turn from the west into North End Road is more problematic. A better filter lane would require an underpass and whilst there is land to the north of Talgarth Road to the West of the intersection suitable for a slip road, it is difficult to see how the other end of the tunnel could merge into North End Road southbound without destroying the Famous Three Kings and rebuilding West Kensington tube station. If new roads are to be created further east to the south of the Cromwell Road extension, perhaps an underpass could be built close to the Olympia -Earls Court overground railway, which is in any case hardly used. This could feed traffic from the West into new North-South roads. The congestion further south in North End Road is largely caused by the street market and could be cured by providing a new site, further removed from moving traffic., This appears to be part of the plan. Congestion in North End Road southbound could be eased by moving the bus stop from outside West Kensington station to a position further south and making a layby for the bus stop.
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 10 March, 2011 - 11:09
Hi James Thank you for your very detailed comments on traffic and congestion. I think it would be best for you to come along to one of our drop-in sessions later in the month to discuss all your suggestions with our transport team. Here is a link to the dates and times: http://www.myearlscourt.com/news/view/masterplan_exhibitions/ Please email me at editor@myearlscourt.com to let me know when you can make it and I can set up an appointment.
Andrew Brown
Joined: 18 March 11
Posted: 18 March, 2011 - 14:58
Firstly, I would like to congratulate H&F for taking this consultation process so seriously. A redevelopment of this size is going to have a very significant impact on local residents, and it also provides an opportunity to guage feedback on improvements to the are that can be accomodated at the same time. Re the Talgarth Road intersection... I think it is very sensible to seek ways to improve the safety of the junction, for all users. I live in the area, and I travel to/from work using the tube, I also cycle in London when I can. But, if I want to get out ofLondon, I have no choice but to use my car. The Talgarth Road junction (and the section of North End Road out of Fulham) is already very seriously over capacity at peak times, and very near it at others. The redevelopment of the Earls Court area, and additional residential and business traffic that this would create, without an accompanying solution to the traffic problems, will simply result in gridlock. Encouraging people onto the train, or bike is not going to fix the problem, indeed it's ignoring the real problem. The problem is that the junction is terribly badly designed - note that for traffic turning from North End Road onto the A4, the light is not fully filtered (even though it could be) and a red light is the first thing you encounter once having rounded the corner. This results, every time, in only a very small number of vehicles being able to turn the corner in any one sequence, on an already short light. This often results in tailbacks all the way back into Fulham. Additionally, turning from the A4 onto North End Road towards Fulham is also on a very short light. This problem is made worse because the previous junction (at Baron's Court) is no right turn. Hence all the traffic wanting to access anything west of Hammersmith, and East of Gloucester Road (a very substantial area) is directed onto North End Road. This often results in tailbacks back along the A4 well before the right-turn lane starts. Some solutions, however, are very simple. 1. Removing the pedestrian crossing on the western side of the junction (it is not required as there is already one on the other side). 2. Creating a lane to turn right at Baron's Court. 3. Fully filtering the left turn from North End Road onto the A4. All very simple to achieve. Please don't make the mistake of ignoring this - it is already a very serious problem and will only get worse without careful planning. Some very simply changes could make a very significant difference. Thanks.
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 21 March, 2011 - 09:33
Hi Andrew Thanks for your detailed comments on traffic issues. I have contacted our transport team and will respond when I hear back from them.
james ensor
Joined: 09 March 11
Posted: 25 March, 2011 - 11:07
Surely there is a solution available in providing a bypass to this section of the North End Road running alongside the little used railway track from West Brompton to the Cromwell Road railway bridge. Filter lanes to and from the Western section of the A4 could lead off southwards underneath the flyover ideally in a cutting to connect with Lillie Road close to West Brompton station or even further south with the Fulham Road by Chelsea football ground. There is much derelict land along the railway line and rebuilding the Earls Court exhibition ground and developing the Seagrave Road car park provide a once in a lifetime chance to ease the traffic situation, which I think that we all agree has become intolerable at times. Without wishing to revive the much derided West Cross route scheme or the even more obnoxious inner London Motorway box, it is clear that the cancellation of this north-south corridor scheme has imposed a heavy burden on existing roads, which were not laid down in the age of the motor car, One cause of the excessive traffic jams appears to be the football ground itself. When Chelsea play Manchester or other non-London clubs at home the whole area seizes up and roads are blocked for hours. London fans may arrive by tube but many of those from further afield come by car, clogging the roads and the parking for miles around. Clearly this was not the case when the ground was built. This demand was not envisaged by planners. But now there is a clear need for a relief bypass and relief parking so that residents can still move about as inevitably they often have to, by car, A proper pedestrian crossing at ground level replacing the two pedestrian crossings near West Kensington station could also be incorporated into this scheme and provide both pedestrians and cyclists with a safe means of travelling north-south without encountering vehicles as they do now.
Richard Fox
Joined: 10 December 10
Posted: 26 March, 2011 - 20:24
As suggested I attended the consultation, and what a waste of time that was, 50% of the people there could not even work out where they lived, from the poor wooden display that was supposed to show the future, good you decided to write a few street names in at a later date., at least gave some of us a clue. GATEWAY, what gateway, was that display in the storeroom by any chance because I could not find it, even spoke to your representatives and the best they could come up with is 2 red lines across the Talgarth Road, which I presume means we will in future be able to walk straight to our deaths, rather than having to do it Zig Zag fashion, ah well should be a faster, but I am not certain a less messy a death. The project is long overdue, the Gateway is essential and the safety of passengers is 100% TFLS problem and the Road safety issues and those of the Government and Developers , here is a little snippet for TFL TfL target Talgarth Road parking by Hammersmith and Fulham Press Office 29/02/2008 Hammersmith and Fulham Council and local residents are up in arms about Transport for London’s (TfL) latest slap in the face to the people of Hammersmith and Fulham. While H&F Council look after the majority of the roads in the borough, TfL have responsibility for some of the major routes running through Hammersmith & Fulham. One such road is the A4, which includes the stretch more commonly known as Talgarth Road. Come on, this should get no votes all I could hear was Profit, Profit, Profit and the expense of the community A long way to go as far as I can see , it a NO vote for me at the moment, good luck Richard
Simon Patrick Sherrard
Joined: 27 March 11
Posted: 27 March, 2011 - 16:48
At many times of the day it takes forever to access the West Cromwell Road from Fulham and vice versa whether by way of Hammersmith, Barons Court or North End Road. With the amount of land becoming available with this proposed redevelopmnet it would be negligent of the council not to allocate some of the space for a 21st century intersection both allowing access to the trunk road and enabling traffic coming from the west into Fulham. Without this the increased traffic arising from the redevelopment will just exacerbate the existing problems. To think that the additional residents will only use public transport or bicycles is quite frankly naive.
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 1 April, 2011 - 08:16
Thanks for your posts on this issue. These roads are away from the main Earls Court site and are the responsibility of Transport for London (TfL) and the local boroughs. TfL have provided us with the following information. The Mayor and TfL take very the seriously the problems caused by congestion in London and are working with the boroughs and others to smooth traffic flow in London, making journey time more predictable and reducing congestion caused by roadworks. TfL works with London’s boroughs to help them reduce congestion including looking at the position and timing of traffic lights, introducing ways to reduce the length of time roadworks are in place for, and how ‘pinch points’ on the network can be better managed. The area around Earls Court is particularly difficult to manage as road space is confined and road widening would reduce or remove pavements. Building new roads is very expensive and in a built up area with limited space, such as Earls Court, would mean the removal of many homes and businesses and be extremely disruptive. This is why the Mayor, TfL and the Boroughs are focused on making best use of the current road network, ensuring an appropriate balance for all road users, including pedestrians and cyclists alongside motorists. This includes looking at neighbouring routes and seeing whether they can help reduce congestion in certain areas. Thirty two incidents have been recorded at the junction of Talgarth Road and North End Road in the three years to last December, eight of which involved pedestrians. In an effort to reduce the number of incidents the carriageway was resurfaced over the last 2 years, a yellow box junction was re-installed and road markings improved to increase levels of safety for both drivers and pedestrians. In response to Andrew Brown's suggestions, the traffic lights across Talgarth Road need to cater to all road users, which is why there are pedestrian crossings on both sides of North End Road. Due to the limited amount of space available, the pedestrian crossing on the western side of the junction is located about 10 metres west of North End Road. If this pedestrian crossing was removed, all pedestrians would have to use the crossing on the eastern side of the junction which is a substantial detour, particularly for those with mobility problems or parents with young children. TfL’s research shows that pedestrians generally try to take the shortest route so there would still be attempts to cross Talgarth Road here even if the crossing were removed which would result in yet more accidents. This is unfortunately why drivers turning left out of North End Road get a red signal when a pedestrian presses the button at the crossing. This only allows a small number of cars to turn the corner in any one sequence but this provides the best balance for the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists. Cars travelling north along North End Road towards Talgarth Road use a single lane. Introducing a left-turn filter at the junction would block vehicles trying to proceed straight ahead, increasing congestion. Currently the first junction after the Hammersmith Flyover at Barons Court (Glidden Road) has three lanes for eastbound traffic making best use of the space available. Introducing a right turn would result in the loss of one of these lanes, reducing capacity by a third and adding to congestion. Barons Court Road is mainly a residential area with parking on both sides of the roads. It would not cope with the additional traffic generated by the re-introduction of a right turn off the A4. Given the constraints in this local area, TfL has been working with the London boroughs of Hammersmith & Fulham and Richmond to reduce the congestion at nearby pinch points, especially the Hammersmith gyratory. Works have already been carried out here to increase the capacity of this junction and more will follow this year. These will focus on ensuring traffic on the Fulham Palace Road is able to enter and pass through this key junction and make proper provision for cyclists using Cycle Super Highway 9 that will open next year. This extra capacity, which will be in place by next year, will increase traffic flows and provide an alternative for those wishing to avoid the Earls Court area and the North End Road in particular. We expect some traffic growth in the future but predict that the majority of extra journeys will be by public transport.
Richard Fox
Joined: 10 December 10
Posted: 28 June, 2011 - 14:22
Sadly another fatal casualty at this Junction again yesterday, in exactly the same spot that many of these happen, my thoughts are with the victim and his family 32 Incidents in 3 years, this is unacceptable, every department is responsible for this from the Government accepting road fund tax, LBHF, TFL , The Mayor Of London and of course any group of developers that are intent on adding to the traffic Levels. You call this section a gateway, gateway to what "A Gladiators Arena " where one takes ones life into there own hands either driving on it or crossing over it. No more Talk, action, Its time David Cameron, Boris Johnston, LBHF, TFL and the Earls Court Project put the general lives before profit. If we can build the Channel Tunnel we can save lives on the Talgarth Road, Enough is Enough Action from all concerned Richard Fox
Grant
Joined: 18 December 12
Posted: 24 May, 2012 - 19:21
I find it unbeleiavable that the phasing of these lights cant be improved. When traffic is turning right off Talgarth Road onto North End Road towards Fullham there is no reason cars waiting on North End Road shouldn’t be allowed to turn left onto Talgarth Road towards Heathrow at the same time, instead they have to wait inexplicably at a red light. Cars already sit side by side on North End Road, all that is required is an unbroken line and left turn only lane with arrows and a turning traffic light oposite West Ken Tube station. I don’t accept the argument that this would have any impact to pedestrian safety whatsoever. I live on west Kensington Estate and often go the long way around Lillie Road and Warrik Road then finally onto the A4 from there to avoid the North End Road/Talgarth Road nightmare.
Editor
editor@myearlscourt.com's picture
Joined: 02 December 09
Posted: 26 May, 2012 - 19:21
Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the traffic signals at the junction of Talgarth Road – West Cromwell Road – North End Road. Transport for London has investigated the operation of the junction and the reason that your suggestion of a left turn from North End Road is not run at the same time as the right turn from Cromwell Road. In order to allow pedestrians to cross the A4 Talgarth Road, some of the pedestrian crossing points always conflict with vehicular traffic, hence the internal stoplines and signals on the A4 east and westbound. Due to the conflicts with vehicles the times the green man signals can be displayed on these crossing points on this junction is limited. At present when the right turn Talgarth Road into North End Road is at green, the pedestrian phase crossing Talgarth Road westbound is at green. This is the only point in the cycle when this pedestrian phase can be introduced. Should a left turn be introduced during this time, these left turners will be given a green signal onto a pedestrian green signal. Even with the internal stopline, visibility of the pedestrian crossing will be limited and TfL imagines a high proportion of non compliance, with red light jumping at this internal stopline which will endanger pedestrian safety. I hope the above explains the reason why this suggestion was not implemented at this location.